Reviews.

I have been seeing Dr. Dan for about 3 weeks. My first appointment, I felt like I was heard! He took his time and listened to all of concerns and we came up with a game plan.

We are currently working on my achilles tendonosis with massage and Shockwave therapy. I felt major relief after my first appointment and have been progressively healing with each session.

I also have been getting adjustments and honeyyy! Snap crackle pop! My neck and back feels looser, more mobile, and less pain. You maybe sore but that's just a part of it.

Fantastic, cant praise these guys enough

Dan has been amazing! I’ve been getting Laser Therapy to reduce pain and inflammation after major knee surgery and it has been an absolute game changer!

I’ve been seeing Dr Dan for a while. Over and again he brings me back from intolerable pain. He is very intuitive in his care. Highly recommend.

I don't write a lot of reviews but feel compelled to tell everyone about Epic and my experience there. When I came to Dan in October 2022, I could barely walk. I was in extreme pain from a bulged disc. My doctors treatment plan was a needle and if that didn't fix it, move to surgery. That might be necessary for some, but was not the route I wanted to go. A friend referred me to Epic and I decided to give it a try. One of the best decisions I ever made!

It was a great experience from the beginning and that has stayed consistent over the last almost two years. Dan has listened, showed genuine concern, and helped me with my back, shoulder, hip and ankle (I get hurt a lot). In addition to the body work, he provided targeted stretching and recovery routines that made a real difference. It was a lot of hard work, but I got support every step of the way.

Fast forward to today, and I just had the most amazing session just before my... MARATHON. I can only speak from my experience, but in two years I've went from hopeless and legitimately fearing I would never live life the same to feeling amazing and about to run my first ever endurance race.

Thank you Epic!

Keep all our Athletes healthy for competition love this place

The team at Epic provides a high standard of care and they truly care about their patients and their emotional/mental/physical wellbeing. Their commitment to high level care is what keeps me coming back. I’m always greeted with a smile and the adjustments are thorough, always providing relief as needed. If you’re looking for a good chiropractor, Epic has what you need!

We LOVE Dr. Shanna. She has helped our daughter who is a competitive gymnast with her mobility and pain management. If we could get treatment with her everyday we would!

I have been receiving treatment for over a decade and recommend them for their knowledgeable and effective treatment as well as their compassionate and kind nature

Awesome place for state of the art chiropractic treatments including laser and shockwave!!!!

Epic is awesome!! They are kind, compassionate and very innovative with up-to-date equipmen to give you the help you need. You will get the best care ever here!!

Have had nothing just perfect treatment and care with Daniel and Taylor. Very respectful and nice and works with my schedule

Love these folks here!! They are so kind & so good at helping people!! Definitely recommend!

I've been coming to Epic Chiropractic for many years. I have always had, and continue to have, excellent chiropractic care. Dr. Jesse is highly experienced, caring, fun to talk to, and nice. I always walk away feeling great and learn new things. I feel very comfortable and well taken care for my specific chiropractic needs. I highly recommend.

Simply the best!

Dr. Jesse is knowledgeable, very personable, and teaches and explains what is going on. Thank you, Dr. Jesse for keeping me moving!

Couldnt recommend Dr. Daniel Saenz and epic chiro enough! I came
in for a nagging shoulder injury which Daniel correctly identified as a partially torn labrum. He set out an easy to follow treatment/rehab plan and three months later, I am no longer limited at the gym. Thank you Daniel and Epic!

I’m amazed with the instant relief, I felt after my first visit at Epic Chiropractic with Dr Daniel Saenz. It’s been years since I’ve been seen by a chiropractor and I’m so happy I made the decision to come in. He has taken care of the tension/soreness I was feeling on my neck and along my spine.

Jesse is the greatest!

Love this place, always quick and easy to make an appointment. Always on time, leave feeling better than when I came in.

If you to fix your Aches and pains Epic is the place to go they can fix you up

Epic Chiropractic is the best! They are so friendly and really good at what they do. I feel like they are family! I highly recommend!

Dr Dan has been awesome. Very caring and listens to my concerns.
The office has always be accommodating.
Would highly recommend!!!!
Love them !!!!

Great staff, hands down best chriropractic practice I have been to.

Dr. Dan Saenz and the friendly Epic team are great! I was referred to Dan by an orthopedic surgeon for help with knee issues. I am so grateful for this referral, it was an excellent experience. Dan listened carefully to my story, asked questions, did an exam and devised a course of treatment, including home exercises. I've had active release before, but not with such excellent results so quickly. After two visits, my knee was significantly better. After four it is almost hard to tell that there was a problem! I can't thank Dan enough and recommend him without reservation.

Shannon is very effective. Listens really well, makes it personal to your needs. I am 65 and had a shoulder so bad I couldn't bend or raise my arm. After just 4 treatments, its was back to happy normal :)

I have met with Shanna quite a few times, she's always been very personable, figured out the issues right away and very informative on how to avoid some of the Aches and pains I deal with. Has helped out my son too. They have the latest equipment. Definitely visit if you want to feel better.

Shana is amazing! I have a very sensitive body and she is the only chiropractor who has worked on my back successfully. She is friendly, knowledgeable and flexible to work with your unique body. I also get home work to do that has been helping a lot! I would give more stars if I could!

The care received is specific to my needs and has improved my mobility, activities and quality of life. Doctor Dan is sincere and incredibly knowledgeable, helping me achieve my physical goals. I look forward to continued care for managing good health.

Dr. Dan has been great I highly recommend him! The staff is very kind and professional as well.

Shana was literally my saving grace during my injury! She took her time in evaluating my needs and I never feel rushed out of my appts with her. She truly listens and doesn’t write off my pain like so many other Drs do. I tore an adductor and at one point my Kaiser PT wanted to discharge me due to lack of progress and it wasn’t until I started working with Shana that I saw progress. She’s also extremely knowledgeable about womens health specifically which was important to me. Couldn’t recommend her enough!

I’ve had chiropractic care since I was little and I’m very particular in the chiropractor that I choose for my on-going maintenance. Dr. Jesse gets me ‘straightened out’ while providing positive, excellent care.

There’s just something about Shanna! What a blessing it has been to find her.

I was very hesitant about chiropractic care because in the past, everything I’ve experienced was pretty forceful. Already in pain, it just didn’t feel right to add force.

But immediately upon meeting Shanna, something told me I could trust her with my body. She's truly a nice human. It's obvious she's passionate about health. It's awesome to see knowledge and professionalism coupled with an innate sense of touch. It’s the perfect balance of force and gentleness. That's been my experience so far.

I’ve felt so comfortable with her, I even let her adjust my neck. That’s been a no no for me in the past. And I’m glad I did, the results in my body have been astronomical - the tingling running down my left leg has subsided in a matter of weeks.

If you're in pain, honestly It's a no brainer to give her a try.

Never been to a chiropractor before, truth is been scared of the unknown. Told Dr. Jesse this and he was outstanding. Made me feel totally relax, eased the nervousness by giving me a lot of information I was not aware of as it pertains to Chiropractic medicine; and just has excellent people skills. Took his time, didn’t feel rushed at all. I was having pretty bad lower back pain. I’ve done crossfit for 5 years so the body has been gone through quite a bit and he was able to hone in on the area of focus without telling me I’m getting older and I should do something else; like my family practice physician did. Just the opposite as he wanted me to get back ASAP as safely as possible. This is not a go get your back and neck cracked & you’re done, it’s a process on both sides that’s explained.

HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend EPIC Chiropractic & Sports Therapy! Great people, great practice.

Dr. Shanna has been working on me for the last six months or so and she’s the best chiropractor I’ve ever been to! She values the relationships she has with her patients and I’ve always felt comfortable with her.

We cannot say enough about how amazing Dr Shanna is! My daughter, who is a competitive gymnast, has been working with her for about 6 months. Within the first few sessions we noticed her mobility get so much better and she was having less pain after practice. Shanna has taken her time to get to know my daughter and specialize treatments so she can perform better and have great recovery. We have done everything from basic adjustments, to soft tissue manipulation and cupping. Dr Shanna always knows what treatment is best.One of our favorite things about treatment is how comfortable my daughters feels with her. Dr Shanna really gets to know her patients and creates great relationships. My daughter loves not only the physical aspect of each treatment but getting to visit with Shanna. We are so thankful to be able to work with her and 100% recommend her!

So happy I found Shanna! The progress she has helped me make in the last two months is impressive. Working out consistently for a while along came some aches and pains. Finally found a chiropractor that listens and offered additional guidance to help me continue my routine. Shanna is also knowledgeable in sports therapy which all athletes could benefit from.

Dr Jesse has helped me with severe knee pain. I did not know it was possible to be pain free without surgery. I am so GRATEFUL!

Many years of experience and very skilled.

Highly recommended!

I have been a patient for roughly 10 or so years now. I have to say that I always feel welcomed and at home when I visit the office. I have been Dr. Shank's patient but have also been treated by her sons Jesse and Dan as well. The office atmosphere is always very welcoming and kind. All the staff, including the doctors, are patient and take the time to listen to you. I appreciate that I have never felt rushed when I come here. Not only is the office just an awesome and welcoming environment, but they are also truly up to date on treatment methods and this really does put you in good hands when seeking help here.

More than just a quick fix. Meeting Dr. Linda Shanks, receiving evaluation, years of experience, and wisdom was a huge success in pain relief!! I am so grateful for her devotion to her clients, and business.

I’ve had nothing but amazing experiences with Epic! Dan really listens and does his best to help me through my injuries. He adjusts me, gives me advice on training and has even developed programs for me to get better! I recommend every person I know to go there!

Great experience. Thanks for the expert knowledge and help to getting me back on track.

I was suffering with neck and back pain and tightness when I arrived but I left feeling relaxed and loose. If you are hurting, then go see them. You will feel better after their care.

My back felt compressed and could hardly bend over after 3 days. Saw Dr.Dan and the next day back was 100% better and could move. He addressed the issues in my back and focused on that specific area! Thank you so much

No big wait. No big sales job or pressure to come three times a week, just great care. Simple. Straightforward. Done!

Early August I hurt lower back while working out and lifting heavy weights. I rested for a couple days and though I’d be okay. Well things didn’t get better and I decided to look up a chiropractor at first I was going to go to any ordinary chiropractor but I decided to choose to go to a sports chiropractor to see if they better understood my problem. I went in and met Dr. Saenz he helped me out by adjusting me, giving me good advice and stretching methods that should be performing. I took his advice and kept going week to week and I feel way better overall I’m glad I decided to choose Epic Chiropractor

Very professional and friendly practice. I've had great luck with adjustments helping me with daily issues, like headaches and bad posture.

This small business is amazing! Dr. Dan gives tremendous amount of value to his members! He offers a variety of services to best help his members relive pain, get healthier, and build a better and healthier version of themselves! Dr. Dan has worked on me for a long time! I am a former collegiate student-athlete and I now CrossFit 6x a week! Thanks to him and his team I feel great! He helps me optimize my body to keep me healthy and strong! Thank you Dr. Dan and Epic for providing me value!

I've been going to Dr. Dan for about four years now, and it's been great to have him work on me. Aside from providing spot on adjustments, he does a really good job of taking the time to understand underlying contributors to pain and making recommendations/plans to help me be more proactive in keeping pain away. His office staff is very friendly and a pleasure to interact with.

On short notice, Dr. Saenz added me to his schedule as a new patient the next day. Stephanie was a huge help with my insurance and PCP referral challenges. Office is clean, staff is friendly and knowledgeable. I would highly recommend this practice.

Had an amazing first appointment. I was very unhappy with my previous chiropractor and I'm so glad I switched to Epic!

I was in so much pain.my backhand my hamstring. could not walk without cane... I called 3 chiropractors. they all gave me appointments a week latter.. finally I spoke with Ashley and I told her I'm in pain. she set me up the same day... Dr. Jesse is wonderful.. a great chiropractor and sports medicine therapist.. at epic chiropractor they have many modern machines to help u heal fast.. today I saw Dr. Daniel.. also wonderful.. I will not go anywhere else

My fiancé and I use Movement Matters to stay healthy in and out of the gym. We love that he looks for the source/cause of pain and doesn’t just treat the area that hurts. The take home exercises empower you to continue improving yourself on your own. Awesome experience!

I absolutely love everyone at Epic. I had a work accident & had pains & headaches everyday. Jesse listens to my issues & has taken my headaches away completely. Now I know if I have a headache I need adjusted. It’s taken me a long time to find a good chiropractor after moving here 10 years ago. I wouldn’t recommend anywhere else.

I’m almost 40 and I play basketball nearly every day. When I was having severe back spasms, the folks at Epic helped ease my pain and got me back to playing my favorite sport. It’s now been a year and a half since I’ve experienced any serious spasms. Any time I’m not feeling 100%, the first place I contact is the trusted people at Epic! Thanks for everything

Great place, Dr.Linda Shanks was very patient and loving.

As a fellow Doctor of Chiropractic, when I get treated I need a doc who is skilled, experienced, thorough, and professional. After months of knee pain, Dr. Jesse has utilizeed a multi-faceted approach to care that has helped me feel relief I haven't felt in months. Dr. Jesse also took the time to really help me figure out my issue and has given me a homecare plan so the results of treatment last longer. Trust me, you're in good hands.

Dr. Dan Saenz has been a total game-changer for me. His attention to detail and whole-body care (not just neck and spine) has been pivotal in my running and endurance-training. Thanks, Dr. Dan!

Excellent and honest treatment. Definitely more than just a chiropractor. Great for athletes. I had calf pain for 6 months and it was completely fixed in a few sessions. Working through another issue now and am happy with the progress and level of care received. I highly recommend!

Some of the best preventative and recovery therapy I’ve tried- and as an ifbb pro who puts their body through the wringer- Dan is one person I’d recommend highly!

The individualized care that Dr. Daniel Saenz provides is above and beyond anything that I expected from a bodywork specialist; he made me feel heard and comfortable at every session and this took any potential anxiety out of the equation so that I was excited to come into his office every week. I highly recommend Dr. Daniel Saenz.

Dr. Dan is amazing. He’s very attentive when explaining any issues I have and provides thoughtful plans for rehabbing at home. He’s brought my shoulder back from flare ups due to AC separation a number of times. Highly recommend.

Dr. Daniel was amazing! I am a dancer, bartender, and I do CrossFit, so I put my body through a lot. He has helped me with my knee injury, in addition to any neck, back, or hip pain i have. Not only are his adjustments great, he uses other tools and techniques to help get my body feeling good again. I can’t say enough good things about him and everyone in that office!

Dr. Dan and his team at Epic Chiropractic are the best in the business. I’ve had sports-related injuries before, and seen other professionals, but none have taken as much interest in helping me heal and progress quite like Dr. Dan and his team. They are focused on the details. Every time I see them they provide treatment specifically tailored to my needs. Through specific assessments and exercises, Dr. Dan has helped me to regain strength and retrain muscles to defend against future injury. That’s what I appreciate the most - the goal is to get you feeling better and prevent injuries from reoccurring. Dr. Dan is extremely accessible and reachable at all times through a variety of forms of communication. Dr. Dan and the Epic Team have worked at the highest levels of sports and treat everyone from professional athletes to everyday people like me. I recommend them highly if you want to feel better, get stronger and get treatment from the best in the business.

Dr. Dan is the best in the business. Always learning and applying new techniques and tools to his skill set.

Jesse is simply the best. He has a ton of experience and all the tools to get you healthy.

Dr. Daniel is amazing. He’s very thorough and listens to his patients; then fixes what the problem is.
Can’t recommend him enough!!!

My husband has been seeing Dr Dan for sometime and I often end up going with him to his appointment. Their office environment is very welcoming; especially Stephanie. She always has a bright smile which will light up your day. Dr. Dan is extremely sincere. I have also had Dr. adjust my back and perform ART on my shoulder. He is very crafty and knowledgeable. He doesn’t paint every patient with same brush like most other chiropractic care providers do. They are number 1, go see it for yourself.

Over the years I had lots of pain and issues with mobility from everyday life. I have an active lifestyle and have made some bad lifts in my time. My first visit with Dr. Daniel exceeded my expectations. He took a great deal of time to hear and understand what I shared from pain I had throughout the years and created a perfect recovery plan for me. I am a forever client of Dr. Daniel and believe in his services and support.

I have been seeing Dr. Dan for at least four years now on and off. You would say why four years; I am extremely active in the gym and have something that gets out of align once n while. Prior to seeing Dr. Dan I have visited several other Chiro/ART doctors but his knowledge, care and attention to detail is unseen in that industry. He listens, which is far and few now days right. He follows up after providing care and simply CARES about his patients. He is and will always stay number one in Northern California. If you are an athlete he is the best for your rehab care. Don’t trust me simply visit him once and you will see.

I Just got another great adjustment by Daniel. I always appreciate how he takes his time with me and explains his process. He also is so good at using a variety of methods to create the most improvement. I also really like that he is an athlete himself which makes him relatable yet also very reputable in his field. I’ll look forward to my next visit as always.

This Chiro clinic offers the most diverse treatment options I've ever seen, Graston, ATR, cupping, laser, rehab/exercise, ultrasound, sonic scar tissue removal... oh and they also provide adjustments. I don't need to go anywhere else. 5 stars for sure!

The most knowledgeable and friendly chiropractor I know in Sacramento for a few reasons
1. He takes his time and really gets to know the patient and understand their needs
3. Me and my fitness buddy’s have been going there for the past 3 years and have never been disappointed with his service.

I would recommend to anyone try any day.

Dr. Jesse and his team are awesome! He’s helped me recover from several injuries and also kept me tuned up throughout my care at Epic Chiropractic. Dr. Jesse is an amazing chiropractor. He’s very professional while also making you feel like a party of the Epic family. They will always put your care first. I would highly recommend him to any and all people looking for a chiropractor!

Dr. Saenz worked his magic on my left bicep. After 4 visits I was able to work out pain free again.

Dr. Dan is the best! He does a very good job at being easy going/chill while remaining professional. My bf and i was rear ended and when we met Dr. Dan it was such a perfect fit. He really took time to give us corrective treatment in order for full recovery. We didnt receive anything unnecessary and i can proudly say that we went from barely being able to sit down to being fully active again! Thanks Dan!

An excellent experience! I went in with a strained back, and left pain free. I will definitely go back in the future of anything comes up

Dr. Dan is professional, knowledgeable, and thorough. He is clearly very experienced with athletes and sent me home with exercises to help remedy my shoulder pain.

Awesome customer service and real results! He has been helping me with my internal rotation for only a few months and I have seen big improvement in my performance. Dr dan is the man.

I have been seeing Dr. Daniel J. Saenz, DC over the last few years. He is amazing he is patient and listens to your needs. He is friendly and takes the time to satisfy your needs. I suffered from pain and after being under his treatment I now have more mobility and pain free. I highly recommend Dr. Saenz.

Dr. Saenz is easy to communicate with. He listens and provides good advice.

Dr. Saenz is not only great at adjusting he is also aware and well-practiced in other therapies. Dr. Saenz helped me recover from an ankle injury that was taking forever to heal. Before being treated by Dr. Saenz I was worried it was never going to be the same. After a few visits I could tell my ankle was making positive progress. Today I have no issues with my ankle and I would highly recommend Dr. Saenz. He is professional, knowledgeable and well-trained in his craft.

Dr. Daniel J. Saenz has truly helped me with my lower back pain ever since I herniated my disc 5 years ago. He provided me insight regarding preventative care with my back and exercises to strengthen my core and lower back. I see him twice a month and have noticed improvement regarding my Crossfit workouts and overall physical health!

Dr. Dan had been helping care for my wife and I the last few years throughout our body building and fitness ventures which cause many stresses and pains. He has always been able to pinpoint my problems and fix right away! He honestly is the best chiropractor I have ever been to hands down! He’s is amazing at what he does and his graston / a.r.t / infrared and all other techniques work wonders! Dan is the man!
-Shaun & Jessica Seabold

Love the service and care from Dr. Dan. Highly recommend him for Chiropractic services!

I’ll keep this review short, sweet, and straight to the point. Not only does Dr. Dan know what he’s doing, but HE KNOWS WHAT HE’S DOING.

Dr. Daniel J. Saenz was great!! He got me back to my old self in just two visit! The staff is great as well and just a great service and pleasant experience over all. Would definitely recommend these guys!!

Dr. Dan is easily, hands down, the best chiropractor in Sacramento! Whether you play sports, lift weights or been in past accidents, Dr. Dan’s treatment is the best! I visited Dr.Dan after injuring myself during my deadlift workout. He was recommended to me by a close friend, after a couple visits, the lower back pain I was experiencing was Gone!! His methods are pristine! I’ve been to many chiropractors in the Sacramento area, and with all do respect to the other practitioners, Dr. Dan is my “go-to” Chiro!!

I’ve had a bad back since my car accident in 2012, Dan is incredible and really enjoys what he does. It’s been years since I’ve been going Dan for therapy and every time I leave I function better not only in my day to day routine but during my workouts as well. I couldn’t thank him enough for all that he’s done. He works with a lot with CrossFit athletes and I see them leave with the same satisfied look on their face when I leave, so I don’t think I’m alone in saying that Dr. Dan Saenz has solid technique and is able to adjust people of different levels of athleticism and body types with ease. Thanks again!

Everytime I go in with a problem, I leave with a solution and feeling much better. Recommend Dan to ANYONE. I'm an athlete and has helped me numerous times, most of all he always takes his time with his patients.

Dr. Dan Saenz is the chiropractor for top level athletes and other doctors seek out real results. Dr. Saenz was very thorough and he got me back in the game when I was injured playing baseball.

Dr. Dan Saenz is an amazing doctor with a wealth of knowledge to offer. As a bodybuilder I really appreciate his specific knowledge of weight room injuries and how to avoid them. He certainly has helped me out in a pinch many times when I strained my back or neck lifting. If you are trying to become more active or seek to maintain an already active lifestyle Dr. Dan has you covered!

As a practicing Chiropractor I make sure I take great care of my body not only because of my job working on others but the fact I train hard and try to compete in CrossFit and Weightlifting. My go to is Dr. Dan Saenz. Best in Sacramento. After leaving to practice in Arizona, Dan has routinely gone above and beyond for my patients who we referred over and he continuously takes amazing care of them. Happy to call him a friend, colleague and mentor.

Dan has an tremendous amount of knowledge of the body. He makes it easy to understand what he’s doing, why he’s doing it, and gives you preventatives to avoid future pain. Thank you for always listening, Dr. Dan!

Hands down the best you can go to

Dr. Dan is one of a kind. I didn’t think I would ever be able to Olympic lift again given the amount of pain I was in, but Dr. Dan changed my life. Not only was I able to lift but I achieved a new PR. My overall quality of life is much better after seeing him. He listens to you and thoughtfully creates a treatment plan that gets results. His office is always clean and his staff is top notch. If you are looking for a chiropractor your search is over.

Dr. Dan is the only person I will go to for my sports therapy needs. I always walk out of his office feeling 10 times better than when I walked in. Thank you for everything, Dr. Dan!!!!!

Dan is the man! I know with Dan I’m going to get professional treatment geared toward getting me back to full function without having to completely step away from lifting/training. So far I have had nothing but good experiences at Epic Chiropractic. Short wait times and then straight to business. If you lift or are an athlete I highly encourage you contact Dan if you are having any joint or soft tissue aches and pains.

Dan is extremely knowledge and helpful! Coming from years of doing CrossFit Dan was not only able to help me start feeling great again but he was able to relate and understand the physical demands I place on my body. He went beyond what I would consider the normal chiropractic care to give me information and tips to help me sustain and better mobilize my body. I highly recommend him and the whole Epic staff!

Great service and expertise. The team is super nice and responsive. Dr Dan is professional but you still get a local, warm experience.

My life has changed since I became a patient at Epic about 2 years ago. I suffer from occipital neuralgia and my symptoms come and go. Getting adjusted regularly alleviates most of my pain. Before I started seeing Dr. Shanks, I would be out for the count for several days at a time with constant lingering pain. Now, when I’m in pain I know I have an immediate solution and I know they will always take care of me. They are dedicated to healing body and soul. I always look forward to going in and seeing all of the staff and the Doctors. I know that they care about me and all of their patients. Linda is my usually dr but I’ve been treated by Dan and Jesse as well. They are all great doctors and I highly recommend them.

I have gone to Epic Chiropractic for 5 years. In that time I have never had a bad experience. I am friends with the entire staff and I genuinely look forward to seeing them each time I go. Both Jesse and Dan have adeptly pieced me back together with each new injury that I have had the misfortune to cause upon myself in my lifting endevours.
Epic is more than just adjustments, they also, and most importantly for me, do soft tissue work. Stiff neck, popping shoulder, or stuck lat it really does help tremendously.
In all I've probably had either Dan or Jesse fix just about every part of me, from foot to neck from bicep tear to car accident whiplash, I swear by them. If you are into sports, hunch over at a computer all day, drive often, get in a car accident, or feel that some body mechanics are off definitely give them a visit.